Spencer Finch in Conversation with Laura Fried

July 2008

On the occasion of The Light Project at the Pulitzer Foundation for the Arts, Finch presents a plein-air ice cream stand. Over the course of six weeks this fall, Grand Center pedestrians will enjoy free ice cream, which has been mixed and frozen on site by a mobile soft-serve machine powered entirely by solar panels. Mounted on the façade of the Contemporary Art Museum St. Louis, the solar panels are suspended above the ice cream cone vendor, who greets visitors at the museum's entrance each afternoon. Here Finch offers an ice cream whose color evokes a St. Louis sunset as observed from the museum rooftop.

Laura Fried

I wonder if we might begin with the sun. Your work frequently offers mediated portraits of the sky. I'm particularly fond of your work West (Sunset in my Hotel Room, Monument Valley, January 26, 2007, 5:36-6:06 pm), in which television monitors with shifting stills from John Ford's 1956 western, The Searchers, project the colors of a sunset onto a white wall. What brings you again to the subject of sunlight?

Spencer Finch

I don't see a lot of choices. To make work about God in this day and age would be chicanery. So for me the sun is the next best thing. As Turner said on his deathbed, "The sun is God!"

Laura Fried

For your commission in St. Louis, you have chosen to put sunlight itself to use. Could you describe the project?

Spencer Finch

This is a piece that has a lot of different aspects going on. It is at one time a monochrome painting; at another time it's a landscape painting of a sunset; and it's also a work of art that's edible. All of these things sort of come together. It started out being a work about the sun. I wanted to do something that used not just the image of the sun, but the actual materiality of the sun. And the only real materiality that we have access to is the energy of the sun. So that's how I came to using solar power as an integral aspect of the sculpture itself. Then I thought, "Well, if it's a solar power piece about the sun, what does it make sense to make with that raw material, the energy of the sun?" It seemed logical that it would be something that references the sun itself. I wanted something that is actually a picture of the sun. And rather than using solar power to create a painting, I decided to use solar power to create a color of ice cream. That's basically the conceptual structure of the work.

Laura Fried

The sunset, too, allows you to use the site to create the properties of color of your monochrome.

Spencer Finch

Everyone loves pictures of a sunset. It's a cliché, of course, but it's also a beautiful thing. I think it's a subject for painters through the years for a reason: it is sort of an extraordinary natural phenomenon. I'm not particularly interested in making an actual painting on canvas of the sunset, but I am interested in something that references that history and maybe doesn't take itself too seriously—and tastes good.

Laura Fried

You're working on another project with solar panels. Have you worked with solar panels before this last year?

Spencer Finch

This is my second project with solar panels, and there's another that I'm working on, so there are three. It's fun working with them. For a long time I've been interested in the sun as subject matter, as a source of wonder, and as something that's sort of important in our world and our understanding of the world. It's impossible to make a picture of the sun. It's so bright, you know, you can't make a picture of it. Using the sun to make a picture of itself—this is about as close as I can get to that. You just can't do it. The Hudson River School painters tried to do it. There's a great Frederic Church painting where he does it with sort of white and a yellow halo. And, of course, Turner did it. But it's still an attempt, And all you can do with attempts is try to get closer each time. I guess that's what I'm trying to do.

Laura Fried

As you're talking about this, I keep thinking of your Sky Over the Ikarian Sea (1997), in which you picture a series of shifting horizons between sea and sky, recreating Icarus's fall from the heavens as his wings melted.

Spencer Finch

Yeah, that's a sun-based work as well. There's a long history of interest and obsession in the sun. It is endlessly fascinating to some people, including myself.

The one thing that's a little odd in the scientific literature about the universe is that there's not so much about the sun. There's much more about the moon and the different planets. Even though the sun is so important, we still don't know a lot about it. There's still a lot of mystery to it even though it is what keeps us alive.

Laura Fried

Your work is often discussed as a wedding of scientific understanding (or speculation) and the poetics of observation. In quoting Newton or Heisenberg in some works, whilst citing Dickinson or Turner in others, you do point to both the logical and lyrical in our attempts to represent what we see...

Spencer Finch

There was a time when science and art were not such different fields of study. The nineteenth century was full of people who did both. The speculative impulse can be adapted to either form of knowledge. Unfortunately, we are now so specialized that it is very difficult to be a serious practitioner in more than one field. I don't understand quantum mechanics very well, but I do appreciate the incredible beauty and poetry of modern physics.

Laura Fried

Where your work often asks us to see ourselves seeing, in St. Louis you ask us to taste it. But at this point you haven't decided what the sunset will taste like. I was thinking about this as we were testing ice cream. The taste adds a whole other associative element to the piece. If you were to add flavor, what would your monochrome taste like?

Spencer Finch

Well, I would like it to be the flavor of a madeleine dipped in tea, but that would require greater culinary skill than I have at my disposal. However, I'm hesitant to deal with the flavor. I'm worried that it will complicate things in an unnecessary way.

Laura Fried

In recent history, other artists have offered the frozen treat as artistic medium. At Documenta 11, Cildo Meireles purveyed pure-water popsicles to passersby in Kassel. Another Brazilian artist, Quisqueya Henrí quez, served visitors at the Bronx Museum ice cream made from Caribbean sea water. Perhaps more in line with Henriquez's salty artwork-cum-dessert, your project asks the St. Louis visitor to reconsider the connection between our (visual) perception and our palate (though your ice cream will surely taste better, I must say). Is this your first consumable artwork?

Spencer Finch

In the past I have made applesauce and vodka, both in collaboration with Paul Ramirez Jonas. The vodka was titled Enemies of Promise.

Laura Fried

And recently you have also turned your attention to ice itself, right?

Spencer Finch

Yes, I have been working with ice and I have been working with the sun. They are both interesting natural materials and the hot-cold dichotomy is interesting to me. So we'll see what happens.

Laura Fried

It was important to you that visitors, who are greeted by your ice cream vendor, will have a connection to the site itself. But at this point you have not yet revealed your plan for indicating where the color comes from.

Spencer Finch

We always experience ice cream as abstract. I mean, maybe not totally abstract: pistachio relates to the pistachio nut, which is actually a sort of acidic green color, and chocolate relates to the color of chocolate, which is brown. But what interests me, in terms of the viewer's experience of the ice cream, is the object being not materially based but representational. To make an ice cream cone that is representational of something else, that's a picture, I guess is what I am interested in. Also, I'm interested that it is a record of a particular moment. The ice cream becomes, in some ways, not only a monochrome painting and a landscape painting, but also a historical painting in that it is also about summer and a memory of summer which will be waning as the exhibition goes on.

Laura Fried

It is the sun that also, in the end, melts your "edible monochrome." Here I detect a certain melancholic note to this whole project...

Spencer Finch

Well, if you eat quickly, it's not melancholic! (BURP!)